Curse

Miriandel · Sep 28, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

If you are gladiator rank 5 are confident enough to play ALL professions have all chapters. You should find yourself a TA guild or try to find a team in TA.

Let me get this clear: I don't have the time for grouping, reason why I left Vanguard and before Anarchy Online and other forced grouping games.

GW is unique because of it's PvP at will feature.
I made all my glad points in RA, playing an hour once in a while.
I suspect thousands of people are like me: we love fast paced PvP and don't have time to waste on GvG or HA.

I've been in only 4 or 5 guilds in GW and each was a waste of time, not even talking about HA which I left after only 37 fame points.

When I have a whole evening, I PvP in EVE where victory/loss has an actual meaning.

With RA dead, it's GW dieing for all of those who play GW for the same reason as me.

Oh, and btw, those who think RA are only for noobs are not exactly experienced players in my book.

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnyman

Really, RA was RA before the glad system came along, as I have said before. Being FORCED to do anything, do expect negativity to aris. Being FORCED to play in a team is not a pleasant feeling. I certainly hope Anet hasn't forgotten about making this game pleasant and fun to play.

Well in the first thread months ago concerning the first set of newly proposed gladiator title systems i suggested to remove the title system from RA since i believed it was the root of the problems there. But Anet made clear statements about their desire to keep the gladiator system as part of RA and TA.

But this is exactly what happens when you apply a reward system to a random arena. It causes conflicts in interest. People who want to earn glad points can go to RA but because of the nature of RA it can prove to be quite a difficult task. They want a level of play that will ensure a 5 win run. But then you got other players who just want an easy fun time, they choose a fun build, often something they dont get much chance to play, goofy builds. They dont care about winning, they just wanna waste some time. Then you have new players who are out to get their first taste of PvP. They dont know much about ressing, or interrupting, or hexes or conditions, they dont even know simple skill combos like sever->gash. They want to unlock skills with faction, they want to learn the basics of PvP.

Its pretty obvious which 1 of these 3 types of players is the odd one out in RA.

i think the hidden intention behind the changes is to slowly shift players who want to gain glad points and ranks over to TA. RA really isnt the place to get them anymore. Its an exercise in frustration. I think the stubborn among us just cant accept that their old glad point farming arena just doesnt exist anymore. As a PvP title the glad title should involve a much higher level of competitiveness than what is provided in the RA environment.

I think we are going to witness a lot of kicking and crying while players grudgingly accept this change. Glad point farmers will migrate to TA but they wont do it without making a noise about it.

But at the end of the day, the less people in RA trying to farm glad points, the better. Then it will become just what it was meant to be and truly is, an unpredictable place for nothing but whacky builds, people who want to waste some time, and for newer players who need a ultra relaxed environment to make their first steps into PvP.

Despozblehero · Sep 28, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I started to type something, then I thought about it, and its RA....then I lol'ed... RA IZ SERIUZ BIZZNEZZ!!!111 ::goes to get W/Mo with Mending, HB, Glads def and Bonettis def.::

Laenavesse · Sep 28, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

i'm just gonna say this:

It's still too early to complain that it's the end of the world.

I like and dislike the update. It fixes some of the major issues though it does introduce some other, IMO, minor ones. As I hardly ever left to begin with I'm not as affected (yeah, I stayed with a echo shadow form sin for a whole 20 minutes before HE left. ^_^) to the whole having to stay the whole match.

There was a match where my team had two monks and the other had 3 and thus it became a stalemate (yes, all monks were healing/prot o_O) so we both lost. Neither could kill the other side. Though I think we inflicted more damage than they did to us because the mesmer and I got a monk to 1/4 health, which is farther than their hammer war got with any of us. One of the monks on the other side did not want to resign, hence why we both lost. The other 3 were willing to let us go through but meh.

So it's not a perfect solution. No one ever said it was. I'm come ON this is the FIRST FRICKING DAY!

We have issues? All right, give us 5 seconds to fix it

(not including the whole removal of the system)

I think not -.-; It's going to be a while, maybe not too long but a while before everyone is happy. Which is never going to happen.

Instead of completely ranting about it (which not everyone has, but a lot have) maybe just simply point out the problem and why it is an issue and what could be done with it.

I don't know what my current take is on the titles. I like the 1 points per 5 and the additional at the next 5. Most teams will make it to 5 wins, but might lose at 8. 1 point per win is a bit much. That would just make people leave right after each win regardless if the team was actually good or not to make it to the 5. The scaling of the titles, again I'm not sure what my take is. They obviously had to because of the increase. They're probably figuring in the decreased difficulty of how to reach the rank. If someone got r3 or r5 (i'm guessing by then they would have just gone to TA) in a shorter amount of time than someone before the update, I am absolutely positively sure there would be complaints and rants about that from the ones who gained the titles pre-update. Who knows, they may rescale it down a little. The numbers may look bigger, but if you consider time, it may be the same thing than pre-update where it was every 10 wins and factor in the chance of actually getting the 10 wins (TA both increases and decreases chance still) then yeah still lots of time.

Oh, and going to TA, a lot of teams won't let anyone in unless they are a certain rank or higher, and if you argue about guilds, not everyone is in a PvP only guild and even then you can't always bank on them to help you get your title.

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Oh, and going to TA, a lot of teams won't let anyone in unless they are a certain rank or higher

The problem with TA as it is right now, is that no one in their sane mind wants to go there, because fighting hordes of silly Dancing Daggers is just not fun, and game skill balancer is on Hawaiis.

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miriandel

I made all my glad points in RA, playing an hour once in a while.
I suspect thousands of people are like me: we love fast paced PvP
With RA dead, it's GW dieing for all of those who play GW for the same reason as me.

You made all your glad points in RA by continually leaving/reentering in order to get teamed up with the ''perfect'' RA team. If you say otherwise i really wont believe you. Like you, i suspect there were thousands of people who did exactly the same. Enter/leave Enter/leave until they got a team with 3 dmg dealers and a monk, or something along those lines. Then you lost in TA and then you repeated the process again and again in RA. Its the easiest way of getting glad points for people who cant be bothered to go to TA.

You are abusing the random nature of RA, you are doing something to avoid its true nature, you want the quality of a TA team in a RA environment and that is just plainly wrong and should not be allowed. Constantly entering and reentering in order to achieve the ''perfect'' team is not random. Thats not how you are supposed to play in RA. And if the glad point system was not part of RA NOONE would be doing this.

RA is not 'dead' there are more than 6 english districts. The hype and fuss about the glad point system has caused an upsurge in interest in RA. Unfortunately most of this interest is based on the wrong belief that the new glad title is easier to farm. It isnt. It isnt easy to win 5 games in a row, not with the sudden increase in people going to RA. The chances of being teamed up with 3 other people who know how to PvP is incredibly slim. This is why RA is pretty bad at the moment. But in all honesty, since when was RA meant to showcase high quality PvP? Its the first step into the PvP world of GW and as the first step on a very high ladder you can only expect it to be populated by a truly awful level of player skill.

So yes, RA is no longer the place you can easily farm glad points. Because you can no longer sidestep its random nature by entering/reentering.

But if all the people who go to RA for this reason alone now stop going to RA... i say good riddens. The changes to the system were done especially to prevent this sort of behaviour and unless you are prepared to adapt to the new situation i dont know what else to say but...

why not try hero battles or alliance battles?

NeHoMaR · Sep 28, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Oh! I forgot to say this is annoying as hell to see in every fight

I hope it's temporary!

... Specially the YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BANNED part, lol!! I like the feature, not the message!

African War Lord · Sep 28, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I wish they could put in some sort of system that kicks in after 5 or 10 minutes that calculates damage vs. damage taken. Then rewards the team with the better ratio after 30 seconds or so with victory. Deadly paradox would need to be fixed though.

Dark Paladin X · Sep 28, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Thank you very much, something to teach those leechers a lesson that they deserve. I hate it when leeches ruin AB.

MelechRic · Sep 28, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

last thing is..balance.

yes, it's time for an arena balance. it's needed badly. incredibly dumb builds are out there, farming the PvEers that are coming. no more chances for balance, no more fun, TA is pretty ruined.

- A/Mo farm -- fix deadly arts (paradox, other threads for ideas)
- Steady Stance -- i don't care if Izzy is a terrible warrior, change it, it's dumb
- Angorodon -- again, just nerf it, what the hell where you thinking? link the energy gain to Soul Reaping (see other threads for suggestions)
- Thumpers -- lol yes again, please kill RaO for good. Warmongers needs a nerf also.
- Melandru/Smiteway -- Melandru, Aoe Smiter, Wor Rit, Smiters Boon monk, incredible overpowered team template. we all know that Melandru needs a nerf, it's too good, paired with the smiter it just owns shit, and the backline owns your melees with absolute incredible defense.

these need work ons to make TA a bit more enjoyable again, and instead of making it a farm fest, turning it in something that requires a bit more *skill* again, because right now it doesn't require any skill at all, and the title is a pure time investment.

please, fix these things.

I went and rolled an Angorodon Mesmer to see what all the fuss was. Let me say that if you can manage to refresh MoR and Signet of Agony... you cannot lose to A/Mo DD spam or RaO Thumpers. That's saying a lot.

I concur, balance.

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Let's put it this way: my every RA streak today ended when enemy team came up with Dancing Daggers assassin.

Conincidence? No, it's what happens when game balancer is on Hawaii celebrating the sales without need to bother anymore about the game. Of course, now game is in the "mature" phase so no need for frequent skill balances. That's a great excuse to balance 5 skills in 4 months (not counting to and for balancing).

glountz · Sep 28, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I played RA then AB the whole evening and night.
RA districts are now crowded with people. AB is quite full also, but double week-end might be the reason.
I think this update attracted people to RA and PvP. In addition, no, I didn't see so much mending wammo and 55 HP monks (and they lose anyway when I saw them anyway). Was surprised not to see griefers (aka people that as they don't have a team just go afk or whatever). I wan't reported either. But, hey, I didn't act like moron.
So all in all it seems to work okay.

Greedy Gus · Sep 29, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

You are abusing the random nature of RA, you are doing something to avoid its true nature, you want the quality of a TA team in a RA environment and that is just plainly wrong and should not be allowed. Thats not how you are supposed to play in RA.

I call thinking like this into question. Who are you to say how people are supposed to play RA? Even if Anet decides that they want to tell people how exactly they should play RA, why do it when it will just alienate everyone who plays for another reason?

When I play RA, I absolutely want the quality of a TA team. The reason isn't because I want to farm a title, that's for PvE players. Nor do I just want an easier time winning against relatively worse competition. The reason is that I don't have 3 other guild mates on to play TA, it's that simple. I can't play TA (pugs are terribad and a waste of time), but I still want to work on skillbar micro, quick skirmish decision-making, and better movement/timing.

I specifically don't play RA for the "challenge" of trying to put together a heroic win streak with 3 strangers, battling not only our enemy, but the random nature of our team that very likely doesn't synergize. I understand that some people do play for that 'random nature' challenge, they're probably the same who like sealed play, and that's fine. But by adding more restrictions and allowing less reasons to play RA, the changes have alienated myself and others in my position.

Was I ruining the RA experience of others when I would leave a team when we couldn't kill anything for 2 minutes, or when it was so noob that I wasn't going to get any good practice? I guess it's a possibility, though I imagine many people had a better experience due to my playstyle; calling targets, typing basic strategies, drawing where to go on the map for the best chance of winning, etc. And now my play experience is ruined by lots of wasted time in bad matches.

Again, it seems like a tradeoff, not necessarily an actual good direction to move in. More hard restrictions are rarely the best answer to playerbase diversity problems, though Anet has a history of being completely inept at understanding whose complaints are valid and whose are just whining (and even worse at creating a good solution).

Lorekeeper · Sep 29, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I call thinking like this into question. Who are you to say how people are supposed to play RA? Even if Anet decides that they want to tell people how exactly they should play RA, why do it when it will just alienate everyone who plays for another reason?

The point is, noone can say how people are supposed to play in RA, because its RANDOM. But before this most recent update, people were behaving in such a way as to artificially create the conditions they desired. They wanted specific classes in their team and they would not even remain in game for 3 seconds if they didnt see what they wanted. They were trying to work their way around the nature of a system in order to exploit the opportunity of winning easy glad points. If you honestly see nothing wrong with this then i should start to call your thinking into question. I believe my thinking is perfectly reasonable and the changes Anet implemented were borne out of the same misgivings about this sort of behaviour. They want to get rid of the players who abused the system in order to create the best conditions for their glad point farming. In my personal experience of RA matches before this update the vast majority begin with at least 1 rage quitter, you know something is wrong when you are forced to leave and reenter more times than not in a PvP arena that is meant to be the most casual and relaxed of them all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

When I play RA, I absolutely want the quality of a TA team. I still want to work on skillbar micro, quick skirmish decision-making, and better movement/timing.

Id love to be able to enter RA and have the chance of testing something new too. But the conditions you list which are required for the proper testing of a new build just are not reliably part of RA. You might want the quality of a TA team in RA but in all seriousness the chances of you getting what you want in this case is pretty slim to say the least. If someone leaves RA teams prematurely because they didnt like the team they got rolled with, i think they seriously need to reconsider their expectations of what RA is and what they should expect to gain out of playing in RA.

RA is not a reliable source of glad points
RA is not a reliable source of high quality teams
RA is not a reliable place to test serious builds
RA is a place where you can relax
RA is a place where you have no pressure to be any good
RA is a place you can waste some time running something funky without fear of being called a noob

unfortunately there are people who go to RA and behave like it is something it is not. They see whacky builds and they call people noobs. They laugh at peoples builds and they tell them to go back to PvE.

These people i wouldnt mind see leave RA for good. They are ruining what should be the early steps into PvP for newer players. Hopefully the recent changes to the system will turn the more serious minded PvPers to TA instead of RA, and encourage RA players to develop their abilities on their own terms for a change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Was I ruining the RA experience of others when I would leave a team when we couldn't kill anything for 2 minutes, or when it was so noob that I wasn't going to get any good practice? I guess it's a possibility, though I imagine many people had a better experience due to my playstyle; calling targets, typing basic strategies, drawing where to go on the map for the best chance of winning, etc. And now my play experience is ruined by lots of wasted time in bad matches.

Leaving after 2minutes fighting because the game was a stalemate or if your team truly had no chance of winning is fine. Its fine because you actually gave a chance to the other 3 players to prove themselves. Unfortunately if after 2 minutes they failed to achieve any results, i think its perfectly reasonable to leave the match, just as it is reasonable for them to leave also. This is an issue most posters in this thread would agree on. And i think most would support the idea that anyone should be allowed to leave a match after a certain period of time had passed in order to avoid wasting time in stalemates.

Lord Natural · Sep 29, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Isn't that the nature of Random Arenas? You have just as much of a chance of going up against a team lacking defense or lacking offense as you have being on that team. It's the nature of the beast when you play in a random battle.

That's usually the argument I hear from people who either don't play RA much at all, or the dolyak mending wammo who can't understand why people don't want to play with him.

The reason for this is, no one with a clue wants to sit there through an 8 min stalemate as 2 or 3 monk teams battle each other. Likewise, who wants to watch the 2 remaining ubertanks flail haplessly at each other for 8-12 mins. Sure, the team you got your 10 wins with may not have existed last week, but at the cost of pissing off virtually everyone (I know) who frequents RA? By embracing the philosophy "It's random arena for a reason LOL!", anet hasn't fixed the problem, they've simply reversed it. Instead of the lonely wammo crying that no one wants to play with him, now it's his 3 teammates who have to sit there crying.

Quote:

If you always want to be on a team that is to your precise expectations, I have to echo others here and suggest you try Team Arenas.

It's all well and good that anet (maybe) has some newfound interest in TA, but I don't think killing RA for the average pvp'er is a good first step in improving it. That would be like improving AB's by deleting every other form of pvp from the game.

czart · Sep 29, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

I have played today about 50 RA matches and I'm very positively impressed by new anti-leaver system. During those 50 battles there was only 1 leaver and 1 leecher. That's heaven in comparison to old situation, when over 50% of battles had leavers in your or opposite team. Now I do not have to play a monk and can for example enjoy a mesmer. Good job.

Anyway we will see how it will be working after some time. Now every leaver is afraid of dishonor points, but with time this fear can lower.

There was no fight with 3 or 4 monks (max was 2 monks) and all of them lasted less time than limit, so 3/4 monks teams really are not a problem. But for those complainng - "oh, 3 monks, wasting 8 minutes" or "low dmg team, wasting time" or "2 w/mo with mending, terrible", two small suggestions:
1) do you understand the word "random"?
2) have you ever tried TA? Team Arena is a place where you can create your perfect team

After the change a population of assasins in RA increased significantly, different builds, but mostly deadly paradox/dancing daggers. Also I have noticed a slight increase of mesmers population (maybe a reason is what I said at the beginning "Now I do not have to play a monk and can enjoy a mesmer", as playing a mesmer and having no healer in na team you could be almost sure to have a leaver). Also, surprisingly, more people use rez now.

That was good change, now a bad one - new gladiator title track. That's very sad you have changed it, I do not understand the neccessity of making everything in a game easier (because PvE players are complaining it's too difficult for them?). So maybe it's time to do some advantages for PvP players in PvE world. Please nerf for example that title for which you cannot die - allow old 20 lvl characters to do it. Everyone will be happy (except those who have it ...)

And one more issue with gladiator title, multiply is not "fair". 10 wins in a row is really much, much harder to do than 5, harder than values used by you.

Div · Sep 29, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Now that I've played in RA/AB for enough matches, I'd like to conclude this is the WORST SYSTEM EVER.

Some things I'd like to point out:
- The timer is nice, but way too long. I've had a guy on my team play a lamer running build, and pretty much ran around for 8 minutes while we had no chance of winning.
- To add on to that, any battle where you have stallers, it makes it not fun for the team that has dead people waiting for their last guy(s) to die out.
- Resign works, but wammos are generally very uncooperative with that.
- Dishonor points punish people for leaving a pointless RA match for GvG, especially if they'd just left a stupid AB game to play RA less than an hour before.
- It has not gotten rid of the leeching/teamdestroyer problem. People who leech or purposefully screw over their team are often not reported. This is because everyone is scared that if not enough people report, they'd get the dishonorable points too.
- Plain old bad players: great, I know RA/AB is meant to be a place to test your builds, but when you're trying to play a bonder in FA and an allied ranger casts NR (by "mistake") next to you, it gets very frustrating. There's nothing you can do. You can tell him not to cast that, but then 9/10 times he's some 10 year old that calls you elitist for teaching him how to play the game.

To be honest, I rather have quitters than a team of bad players that just end up wasting my time while getting nowhere.

On a side note, I heard deadly paradox/dancing daggers/signets are pretty strong, and they also require a lot of skill to play. Any word on when it'll get nerfed so I can play TA without having to run into one of these every time when I get near getting to the 4 point, 20 win mark?

There are more things that I'll post about this horrible system. But whatever, it's not like anyone takes RA seriously.

Greedy Gus · Sep 29, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

But before this most recent update, people were behaving in such a way as to artificially create the conditions they desired. They wanted specific classes in their team and they would not even remain in game for 3 seconds if they didnt see what they wanted. They were trying to work their way around the nature of a system in order to exploit the opportunity of winning easy glad points. If you honestly see nothing wrong with this then i should start to call your thinking into question. I believe my thinking is perfectly reasonable and the changes Anet implemented were borne out of the same misgivings about this sort of behaviour. They want to get rid of the players who abused the system in order to create the best conditions for their glad point farming. In my personal experience of RA matches before this update the vast majority begin with at least 1 rage quitter, you know something is wrong when you are forced to leave and reenter more times than not in a PvP arena that is meant to be the most casual and relaxed of them all.

Well, I agree there was an issue before, largely due to playerbase diversity. However, it showed that there was a significant portion of players who wanted to jump into PvP alone, but wanted a more serious environment for various reasons (glad points, decent gameplay, bar testing, etc.). Why are the people who want to play every single game 4v4 for the challenge of it being random more important? I'd say it was more of the case that between those two general playstyles, one gets trampled by the other, so they of course complain.

But why move to just focus everything on forcing the one playstyle? Restricting, instead of expanding options (that are clearly desired), is just lazy and alienates people.

Riotgear · Sep 29, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

but then 9/10 times he's some 10 year old that calls you elitist for teaching him how to play the game.

Or they're griefing.

Rapture · Sep 29, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

lorekeeper: stop posting every second post stating your vision of ra. we get it already and we dont care. the ra you envision is not fun in any way.

the ra where people shuffle the teams until they get some 70% ta teams and then go from there vs other teams of a similar nature is much more fun. the problem with ra now is there is absolutely no competition, every match is a rout as the one or two teams who actually got that decent compisition roll everything else. this is not fun for either side.

i think you should simply go and play in american districts, that was ra how you wanted it. international districts ra is what we wanted and almost everybody who plays there does not like the changes? does it really matter which set of rules suits the name of the arena better, shouldnt the better entertainment win out?

oh, i couldnt care less with what they do with the glad title, the anti-leaver code is just terrible though.